Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

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Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby Peter_Crowl » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:08 pm

Ok - so I have to do a Ball Gear Job on the Dolphin. Can a guy with modest abilites do it himself?
The service and SELOC manuals are rife with Special Tools which I, of course, do not have, and they're not exactly available at Harbor Freight, so....... :roll:

Peter
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby JimAndros » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:58 am

Peter,

I have rebuilt the outdrives (both full size & the DU models) but have never replaced the ball gears. On my '69 it was leaking oil from the intermediate housing & spraying it onto the transom so I tore that apart too.

On my 69, the gear on the intermediate housing was not as shown on the IPC (illustrated parts catalog). I removed the 3 bolts holding the retainer to the intermediate housing & pulled the gear only to have it cone off the shaft leaving the shaft & bearings in the housing. Problem was that the splines on the fwd end were dry & stuck in the engine coupler. It took some working the shaft & pulling with a slide hammer then hit it with a brass hammer back in & repeat. Maybe 1/2 hour before I had success. Fortunately the splines were only dry, not worn. A long arbor with a wire brush removed most of the rust in the coupler & after replacing the inner seal I reinstalled the parts. The ball gear had no mechanical means of fastening it to the shaft. That was the odd part where things differed fro the IPC BUT I don't remember the exact differences. There was also no method of sealing the splines from the shaft to the I.D. of the ball gear. So, new seal from the housing to the gear O.D. but what stops the oil from leaking past the splines? There was a welch plug stamped into the center of the ball gear, but why? I installed the ball gear with sealant onto the splines, smeared the sealant smooth where the welch plug was - end of story. That was 2003.

BTW, the intermediate housing uses type "C" oil up to the threads. There is no way to drain it except via suction.

Earlier units (4 bolt top style like your deluxe) have a grease fitting instead of oil. There is also a screw to the left (I believe) that must be removed prior to greasing to allow the old grease to flow out.

Jim
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby Peter_Crowl » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:04 am

It's not easy photographing ball gears :~)
Can anybody tell from these if I'm looking at replacement?
Attachments
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby JimAndros » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:52 am

I can't tell from the picture, but replace them if worn 1/2 way. Best I can tell the gears are worn on the tips which makes no sense to me unless they are not the correct ones. The gears should contact each other way in, not just the tips.

Ball gears will last nearly indefinately IF you don't run the drive tilted.

Here is a link to OMC/BRP (consumer version) of the parts catalogs. http://epc.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1 ... 0cbc3ee701

Jim
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby Peter_Crowl » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:45 pm

Right. Wouldn't it make sense then that it was run tilted? That would cause engagement at the tips wouldn't it?
Mayhaps I can dress off the tips to preclude further damage and see how it runs....once I pull the port side motor mount and install a freeze plug - which I just saw is missing. Nice and clean - but missing.
Maybe this thing is parts...but I have a parts Rogue coming in and that has an alledgedly good drive train.
I know - why is it a parts boat if it has a good drivetrain?
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby JimAndros » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:17 pm

Running it tilted causes wear yes, but still it shouldn't be the tips. It is more into the sides. When the drive is down & locked, the gears have maybe 1/2" contact surface on each ball. There is virtually zero relative movement between the balls as the engine runs. This is assuming the trunions are true and not damaged from some massive impact. In other words, the shaft in the intermediate housing & the shaft in the upper housing are in alignment with each other during normal operation.

With the drive full up, just the top balls are touching. So, as the gears rotate, the sides grind away at each other causing the wear. They do wear sort of on a diaginal pattern, but the picture makes yours look weird as if the balls are not interlocked enough. Maybe it is just deception from the camera, I don't know. You do have the blue print parked in your driveway. Compare the relationship on that boat.

Is there a place you can place that OMC parts catalog link so it can be found from the main page?
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby deltadart48 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:27 pm

Peter,

You may be looking at some severe trouble here. I remember seeing this same thing on my late father-in-law's Hydro-Swift. Looking at the pictures I can see that the intermediate shaft has moved forward, chewing up the heads of the bolts holding the bearing retainer. When I took that apart on the Hydro-Swift I found that the bearing had completely disintegrated from lack of lubrication. With no bearing the shape of the ball gears tends to push that shaft forward. In the case of the Hydro-Swift, the balls from the disintegrated bearing were embedded in the metal of the intermediate housing, making it impossible to install a new bearing.

I would remove the drive and see if you can get the intermediate shaft apart to inspect it. If it hasn't destroyed the intermediate housing, then that part should be relatively easy to do. The seals install from the back so you don't have to pull the engine.

The ball gears on the drive are more challenging. Maybe a local shop could that part.

Sterndrive.com has an OMC forum and there are several threads on ball gears. [url
http://www.sterndrive.com/board/show_forum.cfm?ID=43[/url]

Good Luck!

ED Pierson
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby Peter_Crowl » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:15 pm

deltadart48 wrote:Peter,

You may be looking at some severe trouble here. I remember seeing this same thing on my late father-in-law's Hydro-Swift. Looking at the pictures I can see that the intermediate shaft has moved forward, chewing up the heads of the bolts holding the bearing retainer.
ED Pierson


Thanks Ed!!
You're right - I didn't see the bolt head damage for the ball gear wear. This one could be toast. I have a Rogue 210 parts boat coming in that should have a good intermediary.

That said - how diffucult is it to do a press on ball gear swap as a DIY project? If I get it apart is it a simple press job or is it more complex?

Peter
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby JimAndros » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:07 pm

Peter,

Ed is correct, the intermediate housing is where the problem is. Now that he said it, I see it too.

To remove the drive;

1) Remove the 3 bolts holding the tilt gear in place & lower the unit.
2) Support the skeg so it is just shimmed & the drive can't drop. You could do this by raising the tongue or perhaps a block of wood. If you don't have help, then a block of wood is better because you will need to hold the drive while the tongue is lowered.
3) Disconnect the spring from the clamp on the shift wire so you have slack.
4) Disconnect the 2 knife splices from inside the boat near the tilt motor. You will pull the wires out later.
5) Remove the 5 bolts holding the cap to the exhaust housing.
6) Drop the lower unit about 2 inches & it will clear the upper & pull straight back.
7) Don't go far until you pull the shift wire harness out of the intermediate.

I have highlited steps 4 & 7 in red. If you have an outdrive stand, you can just rotate the drive to the left side & work without removing the shift wires. If you have no idea of the history of this boat, then you may want to dig way into it. If so, then disconnect & pull the harness. Put the outdrive out of your way.

Jim
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Re: Ball Gears - This oughta be an interesting thread

Postby Peter_Crowl » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:43 pm

Well - checked with Sea-Way today and found that they have ball gears for the early drives.
Part Numbers 383177 and 379415.

That's good.

They're about $1,000 for a pair.

That's bad.
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